Comments on First Paris Then Rome: Feeding Infants: Anglo-Saxons, French and Italians...

As an American mom who is "still" breastfeeding he...

2007-12-14T23:35:48.517+01:00

As an American mom who is "still" breastfeeding her 9 month old daughter, I have often wondered what the norm is in other countries. I ahve visited beautiful Italy, but alas I was newly married with no little ones and I didn't really notice nursing mamas one way or the other.

You are right on the money about one thing...I think it's tough to keep up nursing here in the U.S. once you return to work and have to pump. Because pumping really sucks! I pump 4 times a day at my 8-5 job but I am determined to keep it up as long as I can.

I just discovered your blog and am LOVING it. I secretly harbor fantasies of moving my family to Europe but that dream seems so far out of reach when I can't even find the time to have drinks with friends. I linked to this post on my blog here: http://rpmmom.typepad.com/wanderlust/2007/12/cultural-differ.html

It's true and better give babby with original milk...

2007-07-17T10:06:19.928+02:00

It's true and better give babby with original milk from breast..It's more hygenic

Caroline - yes, I think it's the influence of the ...

2007-07-07T11:40:45.941+02:00

Caroline - yes, I think it's the influence of the Catholic church. Until recently epidurals were not covered by the SSN and were not very commonly available. I think the idea is that women must suffer in childbirth. But the lack of epidurals didn't mean that women were encouraged to have a natural birth - many women I know who've had children here have horror stories about being made to give birth lying down with feet in stirrups, there are no birthing pools etc and women must labour in a room full of other people - and the C-section rate here hovers at around 35%. In some parts of the south virtually everyone has a C-section.

And you could be right about the north vs south thing. I've heard that in the north the hospitals are (generally) much cleaner, less chaotic and more efficient.

Wow, I just checked back here. We have been in Pa...

2007-07-06T14:34:56.665+02:00

Wow, I just checked back here. We have been in Paris for the past week. Ilaria, I am wondering if this is a North/South thing because, honestly, here in Rome four months really does seem to be the standard for starting formula. Is it possible that the northerners are more "progressive"?

My bigger surprise though, is how loyal people are to pediatricians and how much trust they put in them. Trusting your doctor is a big thing here.

Oh, and I agree that the whole stuffing-baby-with-a-bottle-of- flour-at-age-2-months-so-that-he- will-sleep-through-the-night is the ultimate gross anglo-saxon habit (for lack of a better description).

Re pain relief for birth: I get the impression that epidurals are not that common here, even now.

Lol ! quite true indeed.

2007-07-06T12:05:26.852+02:00

Lol ! quite true indeed.

Hello from the USAWhat a pretty blog. On the topi...

2007-07-05T04:39:33.173+02:00

Hello from the USA
What a pretty blog. On the topic of breast feeding, I just found out that even adopting Momma's can do that. We are in the middle of an adoption and the subject came up. thought you might enjoy that!
Also such a georgeous place to live and raise children. Wow, we will have to check out Europe one day!

Thanks for sharing.

Ivy

This is a scream!

2007-07-01T18:00:22.866+02:00

This is a scream!

Yes, I do understand what sweeping generalizations...

2007-06-29T15:36:29.946+02:00

Yes, I do understand what sweeping generalizations and trends mean, I was simply sharing my own experience and my own personal observations of mothering trends in two countries I have lived in (Italy for 18 years, the US for 15). The discrepancy in our observations and conclusions on the same subject piqued my interest, so I did some searches to see if what she is hearing from moms is actually what is being said/recommended/advised in Italy.

"I didn't think she meant to say that all women here stop breastfeeding at whatever age - just that a lot of doctors advise it." I understand what she meant. However, in my life as an Italian I have never heard that advice to anyone in my circle of friends and I couldn't find an Italian doctor or an Italian site for moms that recommended stopping breastfeeding/starting solids at 16 weeks, I'm not saying it's not true, just wondering if maybe it's just moms justifying their choices by saying 'the dr. told me so'.
Honestly, I think all Western countries are more alike in parenting trends than they are different. "Generally" Europeans will let their kids have pacifiers/be in strollers/have a bottle longer than their North American counterparts, who are Nazis when it comes to milestones (sleeping through the night seems to be a biggie, yet having a lovey is totally normal even in college LOL), but the breastmilk-is-best-but-formula-is-just-fine-solids-at-4/5-months-is-great attitude is common to all industrialized countries nowadays. Overall, I think the differences are minimal.

My mother in law was totally out for my husband's birth (in 1971 in New Orleans), she has no recollection of his birth (vaginal)or the hours right after, from what I hear it was not uncommon at the time. My husband did not have an oz. of breastmilk because formula was deemed better, since it was made in a lab. My MIL bandaged her breasts to make her milk go away.
In 1971 in the US, only 24% of women initiated breastfeeding
(http://www.ajph.org/cgi/reprint/93/12/2000.pdf) and today's percentage is still unbelievably low. :(

Ilaria - keep in mind that Caroline said "sweeping...

2007-06-29T15:01:17.187+02:00

Ilaria - keep in mind that Caroline said "sweeping generalisations ahead" - she is not saying that all Italian or US or wherever women do things a certain way - just observing cultural trends based on her experiences in these countries. I didn't think she meant to say that all women here stop breastfeeding at whatever age - just that a lot of doctors advise it. I know my former coworker was not only given a scheduled C-section (extremely common at private hospitals here in Rome at least) but was also advised to stop breastfeeding at 2-3 months and given this drug to stop her breastmilk. Obviously, a lot of doctors don't read the WHO recommendations and there are a lot of old wives tales.

I've never heard of anyone being "knocked out" for birth past the 19th century when they used to use ether of labouring women! Where did you hear that?

I was curious about what's out there on Italian si...

2007-06-29T12:15:03.560+02:00

I was curious about what's out there on Italian sites as far weaning goes, what the general consensus is and I a quick 'svezzamento' search brought this up:
Not before 6 months
http://www.ospedalebambinogesu.it/portale/opbg.asp?iditem=1504&idon=128

5-6 months
http://www.vitadidonna.it/gravidanza_00001e.html

6 months if BF, earlier if formula
http://www.mammedomani.com/svezzamento.asp

after 6 months
http://xoomer.alice.it/tatanone/proietti8.htm

after 6 months
http://www.spaziomamme.net/svezzamento.htm

between 4 and 6 months
http://web.tiscali.it/ambupedy/dieta_4-5.htm

SO it seems that those moms who decide to introduce solids early, do it for their won reasons, much like mothers in the US who make big holes in bottle nipples for rice cereal at 2 months so baby 'will sleep through the night' YOWSA!

I'm with Indah...I have never heard of any doctor ...

2007-06-29T11:26:01.556+02:00

I'm with Indah...I have never heard of any doctor in Italy recommending to stop BFing so soon. Early supplementing and early solid feeding yes, but stopping never. I did a search on Italian parenting sites with doctors' opinions and they all reflect the WHO recommendations. Did you actually hear a doctor say that yourself? Or is that what someone told you maybe to justify the fact that they quit brestfeeding?
It is common knowledge in italy that 'il latte della mamma' is next to miraculous and that 'il latte artificiale' is just that, artificial, hence inferior. (The English "formula" sounds very modern and scientific and 'good' on the other hand).
I breastfed my 2 kids for 45 months total, often in public and with no blanket (never seen anyone do that outside of puritan North America), even BFd my 2 year old on the beach when obviously pregnant with #2. Everyone just complimented me and I got no negative remarks from anyone, some questions, maybe surprise and some regrets (theirs), but nothing negative.
I googled breastfeeding initiation in various countries and discovered that it's around 85% in Italy, about 82% in Canada and about 68% in the US (with a goal of 75% set for 2010).

I am not sure what you mean about being stuck in 1970s....in the Anglo-Saxon US for example, in the 70s, women gave birth while being knocked out and they were told that formula was better than breastmilk, very few breastfed then. In Italy in the 70s women had natural births (no drugs at all), and were told to breast feed (though early supplementing was commonplace)....not to mention Routine Infant Circumcision which in Italy was unheard of, then and now....and we all know about Anglo Saxon countries in regards to that... talk about being stuck in the past! ;)

The Italians I know and especially our pediatricia...

2007-06-28T14:42:47.028+02:00

The Italians I know and especially our pediatrician (who in appearance may seem to be of the 'old school' type), definetly do not fall into the stereotypes. All of the moms I know here in Siena breastfed exclusively for at least 6 months and continue to give breastmilk till the baby is 16 months old (all highly educated working moms, i must add). I have never heard of anyone being told about weaning their baby at 2-3 months old. That's just crazy. Our pediatrician is a supporter of feeding on demand as well as on child-led weaning. From the horror stories I've heard on health/pregnancy/babies in Italy, I feel very lucky to have great experience here in Siena.

LOL! I do have to laugh at your generalizations, b...

2007-06-28T14:26:20.163+02:00

LOL! I do have to laugh at your generalizations, but thankfully I'm an "Anglo-Saxon" mommy who breastfeeds her children (and in public if necessary without embarrassment!) for at leat 15 months and doesn't start any form of solids (even cereal) for at least 7 months (although I'm on my second one and she didn't start until 9 months -- she was already over the 100th percentile in weight!). Never touch formula ... and juice? Well, that's not even considered until well after 1 year old and then it's 100% juice diluted highly with water. And apple juice? Forget it until they are at least 2. Just to let you know for a fact that you do have some who stray out of these stereotypes! Enjoyed it, though. :)

Charlotte, No shame about whipping the boob out an...

2007-06-28T13:27:27.106+02:00

Charlotte, No shame about whipping the boob out anywhere doesn't surprise me. Having spent lots of time in German saunas, health spas and beaches, I know that the Germans have no qualms whatsoever about nudity.

The French, like the Germans, are not bothered by seeing a bare breast in public. But unlike the Germans, it does seem to bother them to see breasts used to feed a baby rather than as something sexual.

Kataroma, the info that I have received here is that breastfeeding is standard for the first 16 weeks and then baby is weaned. I think Italy is caught in the 1970s on this front, as with everything else :-)

I would agree with your generalisations, being an ...

2007-06-28T10:28:42.804+02:00

I would agree with your generalisations, being an Anglo-Saxon mummy and having French friends. I can't speak for the Italians though, but I would like to add the German perspective, if I may:

Breastfeed for a minimum of six months, but usually a year. However, no feeding on demand - according to the midwife, babies must feed every four hours even if they are starving and screaming for food.

Absolutely no shame about whipping out the boob anywhere or in front of anyone.

Once weaned at a year, baby must have milk for another year at least.

Solids start at six months. First food: carrots!

I was having lunch with my former co-workers the o...

2007-06-28T10:05:15.323+02:00

I was having lunch with my former co-workers the other day and I asked after another former co-worker who had a baby recently. Coworker A said "Oh yes, Coworker with baby just came by a few days ago with the Bel Bambino but she wasn't feeling well as she was taking a drug to stop her breastmilk being produced." I was a bit confused since the kid is about 2-3 months old - surely too young to wean - and the mother has something like 10 months of maternity leave to go- but maybe your post explains it. Her paediatrician ordered her to stop breastfeeding as he's too old now at 2-3 months? Why would they do that though? Crazy!