PISA
Not the leaning tower but the Programme for International Student Assessment. The results from their most recent triennial study of 15-year old students from 57 different countries in math, science and reading can be found here.
Canada's 15-year olds ranked third in the world in science.
France ranked 22.
The United States ranked 24.
Italy ranked 35.
The outcomes for mathematics and reading were similar.
My first question: How on earth did Italy manage to get such an abysmal ranking.
My next question: Given that Canadian students clearly know their stuff, why, when one of them shows up in France or Italy for a year or two, does he or she get placed two years beneath his grade level? Is old Europe really so snobby that they still think that kids in the new world cannot possibly be up to snuff in school?
9 comments:
Good question. I think it's a question of snobbery, unfortunately.
I have an American friend who wants to go to university here (she's lived here 7 years and is married to an Italian.) La Sapienza told her that she'll need to redo a bunch of high school classes as her US high school diploma is not equivalent to an Italian one! What a nightmare!
I didn't go to high school in the US or Italy but I get the impression that Italian schools are rigid and old fashioned and require a ton of rote memorization without much actual hands-on learning or creativity (I've been told that science labs where kids get to do their own experiments are rare here for example.)
Anyway my friend managed to find a way around it by going to a Vatican affiliated university. But it really is ridiculous when you look at the rankings and also, for example, how terrible most Italian students' English is when they've generally studied it for years and years at school. I've been told that the teachers drone on about English grammar (in Italian) - but the students are hardly required to speak or listen to English at all in class.
It's not snobbery...there is a HUGE difference between schooling, especially at the higher levels, starting from high school up.
When I was in high school (liceo linguistico), I studied about 4 hours each day (we had around 15 subjects, and we also went to school on Saturdays), then I went on an exchange in the US and I could believe how EASY school was! I had 6 subjects only (one of them PE) and I studied about 2 hours A WEEK with English as foreign language (studied for 3 years only) and got all A's. That's when I decided to go to college I the US, which I did and it was still easier than my liceo. That's the reason why American students can only do summer exchanges in Italy, and not 'real' school, they just couldn't do it. In fact, even Italian students attending int'l schools abroad cannot transfer into a liceo without having to repeat a year.
As for the rankings, well, I don't think much of standardized tests and multiple choice tests (non existent in the Italian school system, you are tested with essay or orally in front of everyone), so there you go...But if you do place any importance on them. then I'd be interested in the results for humanities and knowledge of current world events.
I find it kind of funny how it often comes up here how many Italians are not that great at English, as if it some some sort of necessity or requirement... when English speakers generally SUCK at foreign languages "when they've generally studied it for years and years at school". :/ I bet I have an easier time having a basic conversation in English with an Italian student, than in Spanish with a student in North Carolina (I lived there 8 years, and they start taking Spanish in 3rd grade).
Ilaria, I think that you are most certainly correct that European education covers way more "general knowledge", as I like to call it. Canadian 15-year olds do consistently well on tests for knowledge in science, math and reading, BUT their knowledge of other, less universal and more culturally based subjects like history, geography, languages even art, is seriously lacking. I am sure that a French or Italian teenager would be more likely to be able to discuss with ease Picasso, Andy Warhol, Louis XIV, or the American Revolution than would a Canadian adolescent. It is really pathetic how little they know.
As for the ease in the more "universal" subjects like math and science, I am not convinced that your experience would have been the same in one of the provinces in Canada. The US also does consistently poorly on PISA and Canada consistently ranks in the top 5 countries in the world. From my personal experience of 8 nieces and nephews, four growing up on each side of the Atlantic, the four in Canada were confident and graduated from high school knowing their stuff (although seriously lacking in humanities and languages, of course) whereas the four in Luxembourger (similar to the French system) were overworked, frustrated, unhappy and, believe it or not, seemed at least a year behind their Canadian cousins in subjects like math and biology. But they speak three languages fluently.
Ilaria- as my Dutch partner would point out, like it or not, English is the world lingua franca (with Spanish, Russian and Chinese as second runners up in some regions) so English speakers don't need to learn foreign languages simply to function in the modern world in the same way as a Dutch, Italian or Thai person does. English is a BASIC skill for an Italian in a way which Spanish/French/Chinese is not for, say, an Irishman.
I studied French at school for 4 years in Australia. Although, I'd never been to a French speaking country at that point at the end of high school I was able to have a conversation in French, listen to radio in French (from Noumea!), read French newspapers etc. Now that French has been replaced in my brain by Russian and Italian which I studied subsequently. But I think we did pretty well considering how isolated Australia is.
I guess it comes down to different philosophies about education. Yes, liceo classico might be "hard" here but I don't think that all that memorizing and reading passages of Shakespeare in the original really helps young Italians out in the world. Maybe they can impress at dinner parties but can they solve mathematical problems which they've never seen before? Can they hold a business meeting in English with foreign clients? Can they write a clear business letter or report which is not full of typos? From what I've seen of interns and young Italians I've worked with (most of whom had top marks from school/uni)- they need failed to learn these things either at school or even at uni.
I also think an important part of a young person's education is to have part time and summer jobs -to learn to deal with a boss, with customers, to learn the value of money. Here, again, this is unfortunately lacking (at least for middle class kids). A lot of our interns are in their mid 20s and I'm the first boss they've ever had! Maybe they can tell me all about French mannerist painting but they are completely unprepared for the practical realities of work and even people with Masters degrees in English can't actually speak the language.
I am also worried about the type of schooling my future children will have here in Italy. Given no country is perfect, but from what I have learned about school here in Italy, be it no photocopiers, route memorization,Saturday school,to lacking real world knowledge, I am definitely anxious. US schools may not be perfect or even the best, but I left high school with the ability to speak German, get a job, learn how to enroll in a university, and overall be able to FUNCTION. Not to mention I had the best time in HS, from sports, to homecoming.
I am with Ramona, just being able to talk about art and Shakespeare isn't going to help you get a great career, you need to have some street smarts.
In regard to English in Italian schools, my cousin-in-law is 12 and has been "studying" English in school for years, and he is very smart, but he can't understand me all...even when I asked slowly "can you understand me when I speak English?" He answered me in Italian that they only learn verbs. When I left HS in the states I was semi fluent in German and had only studied 2 years. We were forced to have German pen pals and write to them weekly in German. It was fun and educational...I think that may be the difference. Where is the fun in Italian school? Does anyone know? I am not condemning schools here, just to be clear.
Jessica in Rome - I had to laugh. FUN! That is such an American concept (ok - it's even written in the Constitution; the right to happiness = fun) Fun at school? This is Europe - we don't get fun after 5 years old! :-)
(Huge generalisation, of course, but...)
Anna
Anna that's exactly what I mean. Why can't school be enjoyable? If I like something, chances are I will put more effort into it. I read in the newspaper today that 50% of Italians drop out of university...hummm....I wonder why.
Canada is failing its children under the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child as poverty, obesity and mental ness rates rise. click and check
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071120/UNICEF_children_071120/20071120?hub=TopStories
YAY CANADA!!!!!!!
Caroline, come back - we miss you!
Tracey, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada!
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